Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Sub-forum for the layouts....
Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:51 am

IanLMS wrote:Quick question - as this was an old LNWR shed, should the timbers be 9' or is 8'6" pretty standard?


It could be both. Generally 8ft 6 ins sleepers were brought into use after the grouping but 9ft ones could still be found in sidings. You might even have a bit of flat bottom track on wooden sleeperas. In 1936 the LMS installed 5½ miles of FB rail near Leicester and some on the on former CR main line north of Carlisle. With track almost anything is possibe and usually was.

Terry Bendall

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:41 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
IanLMS wrote:Quick question - as this was an old LNWR shed, should the timbers be 9' or is 8'6" pretty standard?


It could be both. Generally 8ft 6 ins sleepers were brought into use after the grouping but 9ft ones could still be found in sidings. You might even have a bit of flat bottom track on wooden sleeperas. In 1936 the LMS installed 5½ miles of FB rail near Leicester and some on the on former CR main line north of Carlisle. With track almost anything is possibe and usually was.

Terry Bendall


Thank you Terry. Grouping was in 1923 and i am modelling 1939 (ish) so it is possible the LMS may have re-layed some of the track using 8'6" sleepers. I read somewhere on the Templot forum track generally had a life span of 18 years so as im at the 16 year point its close enough. I know secondary routes and sidings wouldnt have been a priority, but the theory works for me!!

Ian

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 1970
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Noel » Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:08 am

I suspect that, in this sort of context, it would be possible that odd sleepers, or small numbers, might be replaced following damage of some sort?
Regards
Noel

davebradwell
Posts: 1168
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby davebradwell » Sun Jan 28, 2024 3:21 pm

My own recollection is that timbers on pointwork could become just a random collection of lengths. I suspect that as long as a replacement was above the minimum, the pw squad wouldn't worry about any excess. There's signs of this in your photo.

I'm wondering if the odd heel switch might have survived but sheds were perhaps just a bit too busy for this.

DaveB

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:56 pm

Thank you Dave. I am happy with the Templot 8'6" so will go with that and like you say, there will be random ones here and there, which will be my excuse if i fit any incorrectly :D

Still more timbering adjustments to make but fir the most part, the plan is pretty much there.

Just have to dismantle (destroy) my OO layout next and redecorate the room before ordering the new baseboards and making a start.

This is my OO layout, but i guess needs must!!!
Attachments
20240128_205037.jpg

User avatar
Winander
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Winander » Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:35 am

There are some good photos of Oxenholme shed and the yard in general either on this facebook group (private but you shouldn't have any problem joining) https://www.facebook.com/groups/Winderm ... me.Railway or in Steve Scott's https://www.facebook.com/groups/1452252 ... 923900828/
Richard Hodgson
Organiser Scalefour Virtual Group. Our meeting invitation is here.

petermeyer
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:06 am

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby petermeyer » Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:58 am

IanLMS wrote:Screenshot of where I am at so far and I have labelled each road based on the drawing on the LNWR site. I have checked that all the joins are lined up properly, so timbering next. I have had a play with the Shift Timbers function, and looks easy enough. Its where they should be located, at what angle, whether they should be full length, trimmed, interlacing etc.......that's the tough bit!!

Quick question - as this was an old LNWR shed, should the timbers be 9' or is 8'6" pretty standard?

Ian


The L&NWR Society sell a document of LNWR Permanent Way specs. This includes the timbering for turnouts and other things etc.

You can also set Templot to reflect the L&NWR sleeping spacings (or anything else you choose): IIRC there were wider sleepers at rail joints for example. IMHO 9foot sleepers look better on a layout...

bécasse
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby bécasse » Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:04 am

The LNWR was a significant user of interlaced timbering through pointwork. Interlaced timbering is cheaper but more difficult to maintain and the LNWR was well known for its parsimonious approach.

petermeyer
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:06 am

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby petermeyer » Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:02 pm

bécasse wrote:The LNWR was a significant user of interlaced timbering through pointwork.


The drawings in the book I referred to show trailing crossovers as not being interlaced. I would assume this would apply to the mainline section at Oxenholme shed shown on the plan above. What happened in the yard is another issue.

User avatar
Jol Wilkinson
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:00 pm

This 1909 drawing may be of use. The Tiff file may be a bit sharper.

LNWR track drawings.tif


LNWR track drawings.pdf
(339.82 KiB) Downloaded 17 times

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:25 pm

Thank you all for gour help and guidance with this. I have made all of the timbers/sleepers leading to the engine sged and TT at 9' with the main lines running with 8'6".

I have joined the FB page, just waiting for them to accept me in. Hopefully i will be able to find more info especially on the engine shed, signal box and coal/water facility.

I have just built my very first P4 wagon!!! Thought i would start nice and easy to begin with. A Cambrian D1667 LMS 5-Plank with Brassmasters sprung chassis! Ready for painting and final fitting of wheels, 3-links and buffer heads. I needed something to test my C&L point kit i will build when it finally arrives!!

Ian
Attachments
20240205_151916.jpg
20240205_151909.jpg

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:28 am

While trawling through Ebay for anything Oxenholme related, i came across an edition of Railway Modeller from Sep 2013 on sale that has drawings of Oxenholme shed and someones attempt at modelling it. Duly purchased and winging its way to me as we speak!! Should help a bit at least.

C&L items have arrived along with gauges from the Society shop and construction of my first ever turnout is underway! I have the timbers stuck down with double sided tape on the template but thats as far as i have got so far!!

Mark Tatlow
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:01 pm

Hi Ian

There are lots of tips to give you about turnout building/track laying but I will confine myself to two of the less repeated plus the best way of finding out if you have problems.

Tip 1 - ideally by using Exactoscale gauges (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355438945630 - although they are generally cheaper than this on ebay) ensure that the plus +0.1 guage goes through the switch easily. I find that with both premade and handmade switch rails, there is a tendancy for them to flex out as they are assembled such that it appear as if they are to the correct gauge but in reality are not. The use of the +0.1mm guage hels.

Tip 2 - when you lay track use Peco bullhead or DCC Concepts fishplates as you would with OO track. They help the alignment of the rails in both the horizontal directions which is often rather lacking with hand laid track and even the odd 1/10th of a mm is enough to cause bother in P4

Best Test - get yourself a mint gauge (in the stores ref RSG). It should slide through trackwork and pointwork without stiffness or slopiness. If it binds or starts to need a lot of force to get it through, the track is undergauge and if you can twist or rattle the gauge it is too wide. It is also a fairly chunky bit of metal so if there are any high chairs or similar, it will remove them for you!

As a small PS; make sure that you keep the mint gauge clean as it can get clag on it. Someone who will remain nameless (but might be our chairman) had a little issue about this recently - my gauge went through the track and his didn't - until he cleaned it that is!
Mark Tatlow

User avatar
Paul Willis
Forum Team
Posts: 3030
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Paul Willis » Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:29 pm

IanLMS wrote:Thank you all so far for the help and encouragement you have given me so far - it is very much appreciated. I will hopefully see some of you at Missenden in a few weeks if you are going. This time I have signed up for the painting and lining course. Although track-building would have probably been more suitable all things considered. Not sure if they were putting that one on this year or not.

Ian


See you in a few weeks time then Ian...

Having missed all of the 2023 courses due to work, I'm very much looking forward to being back and doing some more fettling in the loco-building room.

Whilst not part of the official organising team, I understand that trackbuilding is currently paused. Norman Solomon, who for many years was an excellent track tutor (as you'd expect!) and demonstrated The Fastest Ballasting In The West, has officially retired, and is soon to emigrate to join family in a much warmer part of the world than Somerset.

Whether trackbuilding resumes will depend on finding a replacement tutor, I suppose...

Best,
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:14 pm

Thank you very much for the tips Mark. Definately something to think about while i build this one and see you in a few weeks Paul!!! Looking forward to it. I wnet last March and built a CSB chassis for a Jubilee. OO though!!! If only i knew then what i know now lol!!!

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:51 am

First ever turnout built and my newly built wagon runs over it nicely.

No the bugger bit - i purchased a B6, and after re-working the templot plan, i dont need a B6!!! However, i learnt quite a bit building it and might work well as a test track with a short straight for testing locos and rolling stock!!

I made my own tie bars, so not sure how they will work in practice. I plan on using the MTB MP4 or MP5 point motors mounted under the baseboard.

Started dismantling current layout, so its time i registered my entry!!
Attachments
20240211_133024.jpg

User avatar
Paul Willis
Forum Team
Posts: 3030
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:38 pm

IanLMS wrote:First ever turnout built and my newly built wagon runs over it nicely.

No the bugger bit - i purchased a B6, and after re-working the templot plan, i dont need a B6!!! However, i learnt quite a bit building it and might work well as a test track with a short straight for testing locos and rolling stock!!


Well, that is a great achievement to get under your belt. You must have a certain feeling of satisfaction from that.

Even if you don't need a B6 in your plan now, you've hit on a real use for it. Stick it down to a bit of stable board with a bit more track and you have a great thing that is always to hand for testing and checking.

I've posted this picture before, but this is my handy bit of track that just floats around my workbench. It's a bit more extreme than yours could be, being an A4 rather than a B6. It's just very udeful to have around for checking running, heights, etc. Recommended!

Workbench test track (1).JPG
Workbench test track (1).JPG (98 KiB) Viewed 412 times


Cheers
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:57 am

Thanks Paul and nicely built track there!!! I think thats exactly what i will end up doing and fixing it to a board and using ut to test point motors, locos etc. and test robustness of the tie bars and try different options before laying the track on the layout

davebradwell
Posts: 1168
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby davebradwell » Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:31 pm

....or just use Mike Clark's tiebars!

DaveB

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:03 am

davebradwell wrote:....or just use Mike Clark's tiebars!


Which I do and they are very good. :)

Terry Bendall

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:04 am

Can i get them online or via the S4 shop?

Ian

User avatar
Jol Wilkinson
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:56 am

Ian,

look on the Stores and Traders section on the Society website where you can download Mike Clarke's Masokits catalogue. That has full details of how to order.

Jol

IanLMS
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby IanLMS » Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:35 pm

Thank you Jol. I Googled Mike Clark and i got plenty of hits but nothing that resembled tie bars. That is until I realised it was Masokits i should have looked for!! Interesting looking kit. I have thin pcb already so this definately looks a good option.

Ian

User avatar
Jol Wilkinson
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:30 pm

IanLMS wrote:Thank you Jol. I Googled Mike Clark and i got plenty of hits but nothing that resembled tie bars. That is until I realised it was Masokits i should have looked for!! Interesting looking kit. I have thin pcb already so this definately looks a good option.

Ian

Ian,

I think the "kit" for the tie bars includes the thin pcb.

Mike's instructions can look a bit daunting but if followed, his products always work.

Jol

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Potential entry - Oxenholme(ish) Engine Shed c1939

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:29 am

Jol Wilkinson wrote:I think the "kit" for the tie bars includes the thin pcb.


It does and enough for some spares

Jol Wilkinson wrote:Mike's instructions can look a bit daunting but if followed, his products always work.


:thumb :thumb

Terry Bendall


Return to “Challenge Layouts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest